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Post by Goldilocks on Apr 29, 2018 6:26:34 GMT
I was wondering what links there were between attachment style and abuse, so we can use this knowledge to stay out of abusive relationships. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15583508Problem solving communication is an essential skill to have before marriage. This does not make any statements about dismissive females, perhaps because there are fewer of us in the average sample. Dismissive men are actually more likely to be victims. What I find to be extremely tragic is that they are mainly discussed as "bad boyfriends" and not as people who are often in pain within the relationship. This also adds to my distaste of starting with couples therapy in couples with attachment issues. If there is already violence in the relationship, it can be profoundly damaging to have the abuser in the room while the victim is expected to open up and be vulnerable. In many relationships both may be victims and abusers. People may be abusing each other alternatingly. Both anxious females and dismissive males tend to be victims and they are often with one another. I've said earlier that I thought the AP/DA relationship to be inherently abusive. Now we do need more data. I would like to know what types are most likely to abuse dismissives, what the chances are and to what extent communication training helps prevent abuse. Abusive relationships greatly diminish life happiness and life expectancy, so this knowledge is valuable. |
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Post by Goldilocks on Apr 29, 2018 6:30:34 GMT
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Post by Goldilocks on Apr 29, 2018 6:57:04 GMT
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Post by Goldilocks on Apr 29, 2018 9:24:39 GMT
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Post by Goldilocks on Apr 29, 2018 10:35:16 GMT
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Post by juniper on Apr 29, 2018 14:54:22 GMT
The Price of Distrust www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5380380/i am shocked at how often i see anxiously attached display stalking behaviors and how they are minimized as simply a uncomfortable anxious mental state, something the anxious person suffers from, and all attention is on soothing the anxious stalker. I have been on the receiving end of such behavior by anxious mates. It's horrible to endure. for anyone, not just a dismissive. it's toxic behavior. I have been the target of seemingly "benign" behaviors which felt extremely invasive to me, demands for accountability for my time, daily interactions; etc. I have been policed and accused. i have been questioned and derided and asked to soothe this obsessive rumination and it is not my obligation to do so. Any hint of this and it's game over for me, i will never again tolerate it. It's very oppressive, but an anxious person may feel that mine is an overreaction because i am dismissive and need "space". Anything to minimize the severity of stalking behavior which an objective person could easily identify as toxic. I have also been on the receiving end of emotional and physical violence, centered around anxious fear of abandonment. Literally physically attacked and injured because of jealous rage, and attempts to keep me from "abandoning" the anxious and obsessive mate. The analysis of this behavior is out there, documented, and a topic of concern and yet there are many anxious out there just minimizing it and focusing on how terrible it feels to be worried and obsessing that their partner or even EX PARTNER may be doing something they don't like. Online presence makes this behavior even easier to carry out. As stated in the article- electronic communication is a real focus of obesession for the anxiously attached. I feel very somber about this reality. Check any internet forum where the anxiously attached gather to commiserate and you will see it. Jealousy and distrust seem to be hallmarks of their "love". |
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Post by Goldilocks on Apr 30, 2018 17:38:55 GMT
Aww, Juniper... It's so horrible that you had to go through that.  I too am shocked about how toxic and abusive behaviours are often condoned. A behaviour does not have to be illegal to be toxic. Opening the mail of a partner is illegal, but forcing the partner to show all correspondence is pretty toxic as well. Questioning someone's schedule from hour to hour is profoundly disrespectful and harms the psychological wellbeing of the partner. A partner is an adult with the right to freedom, not a child or a slave. Adults someones feel like shopping after work or need to finish some work or choose to stay longer at a friend's house. Unless some logistics need to be arranged, such as picking up a child or having dinner ready, there is no need to question this. I used to have a colleague with a very jealous girlfriend. Whenever we had a team dinner, he was interrogated about if there were any women, if any of us were single and how attractive we were. I felt so sorry for him... It was like she saw him as an uncontrollable stallion and us as a bunch of mares in heat. He is just a kind and regular guy, and not even trying to cheat with anyone. It was a form of emotional abuse. Why would it be okay to treat your partner like a bitch in heat when it is not okay to call someone a bitch? liveboldandbloom.com/02/relationships/signs-of-emotional-abuseMany of the behaviours listed under "Domination and Control" are also mentioned as AP responses to feelings of anxiety and distrust If a partner is feeling anxious, he should soothe or accept his anxious feelings and not drag his partner unto the unmerry-go-round of obsessive rumination. It is abusive. I do feel compassion for Anxious people and know they are hurting. Quite a few abusive people are in mental pain, for example people with personality disorders, and other psychopathologies. People in mental pain deserve effective therapy, they do not deserve to be abusive. |
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Post by Goldilocks on Apr 30, 2018 18:37:47 GMT
Wow...Just wow...
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Post by juniper on Apr 30, 2018 20:20:33 GMT
i have seen a lot of this in my personal life with the anxious female being the aggressor. Two men I know (one dismissive, one secure) are currently experiencing abuse from anxious partners. One has had to call police for physical aggression to have the woman removed from his driveway. she followed him home after confronting him at his place of employment. They had broken up but she was concerned he might be seeing someone new. The other has had to limit his time with our social group because of the constant monitoring. He is married with a child and tried to separate but she made his life such hell with controlling and emotionally abusive behaviors, he went back to just be able to parent his daughter the best way he could, thinking it would at least calm her down. We have changed the way we interact on facebook just to spare him the interrogation. She goes through the phone bill and asks him who the numbers are. He leaves us early to avoid the hassle of confrontation should he linger too long visiting with us. She thinks he is flirting and being involved with other women. I hate to see him succumb to it, but i saw the way she harassed him when they were apart and he believes this is the best option for him at this point. I just saw him this morning, and he said he is trying to find ways to address the anxiety and heart palpitations he has developed. he feels overwhelmed by her demands for accountability and validtation. What she doesn't realize, is this man is extremely loyal and faithful. Actually, He would leave her if she would leave him alone, because he hates living like this. But because he has chosen not to, because of who he is, it's preposterous to think of him as the person she fears he must be- lying, conniving, cheating, etc. It's absolutely absurd to all of us who know him. And yet, i'm sure she thinks she suffers the most. I feel angry about how this kind of treatment is minimized! Some might say it's extreme or unusual- i don't think so. I have seen many accounts of controlling behavior , even from the anxious seeking comfort for their anxiety. Yes, they deserve support. But no, they do not deserve tolerance for that kind of acting out. It's aggressive and abusive. At least a dismissive will just leave if they don't like their partner, or become harder to reach. If an AP doesn't like or respect their partner, they pursue harder, from what i have seen. I have survived the controlling behaviors of an anxious partner and i am certainly happy to have an understanding now that eliminates the possibility of ever enduring that again. I can't say it enough, it was awful. |
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Post by Goldilocks on Apr 30, 2018 21:10:23 GMT
i have seen a lot of this in my personal life with the anxious female being the aggressor. Two men I know (one dismissive, one secure) are currently experiencing abuse from anxious partners. One has had to call police for physical aggression to have the woman removed from his driveway. she followed him home after confronting him at his place of employment. They had broken up but she was concerned he might be seeing someone new. The other has had to limit his time with our social group because of the constant monitoring. He is married with a child and tried to separate but she made his life such hell with controlling and emotionally abusive behaviors, he went back to just be able to parent his daughter the best way he could, thinking it would at least calm her down. We have changed the way we interact on facebook just to spare him the interrogation. She goes through the phone bill and asks him who the numbers are. He leaves us early to avoid the hassle of confrontation should he linger too long visiting with us. She thinks he is flirting and being involved with other women. I hate to see him succumb to it, but i saw the way she harassed him when they were apart and he believes this is the best option for him at this point. This is so sad. The children are being weaponized to make the husband submit to abuse and control. What is such an injustice is that society really lacks awareness of the amount of harm emotional abuse does. Controlling tactics are condoned and even romanticized. Look at 50 shades of Grey. The guy is an abusive AP stalker coated in good looks and billionaire status. People swoon over the dysfunction. Jealous behaviour is not love, it is having more desire to control than respect for the personhood of the partner. I just saw him this morning, and he said he is trying to find ways to address the anxiety and heart palpitations he has developed. he feels overwhelmed by her demands for accountability and validtation. Abuse is lethal even when the abused person is not being beaten to death. It may show up as natural causes but if a man dies of a heart attack at 54 rather than in his bed at 84 because of extreme forms of marital stress, he has been killed slowly. What she doesn't realize, is this man is extremely loyal and faithful. Actually, He would leave her if she would leave him alone, because he hates living like this. But because he has chosen not to, because of who he is, it's preposterous to think of him as the person she fears he must be- lying, conniving, cheating, etc. It's absolutely absurd to all of us who know him. And yet, i'm sure she thinks she suffers the most. I feel angry about how this kind of treatment is minimized! Some might say it's extreme or unusual- i don't think so. I have seen many accounts of controlling behavior , even from the anxious seeking comfort for their anxiety. Yes, they deserve support. But no, they do not deserve tolerance for that kind of acting out. It's aggressive and abusive. At least a dismissive will just leave if they don't like their partner, or become harder to reach. If an AP doesn't like or respect their partner, they pursue harder, from what i have seen. I have survived the controlling behaviors of an anxious partner and i am certainly happy to have an understanding now that eliminates the possibility of ever enduring that again. I can't say it enough, it was awful. This. Empathy and enablement are two different things. What people need is support in healing, and not support in acting out. And condoning abuse is just the worst. |
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Post by juniper on Apr 30, 2018 23:40:47 GMT
what i see is that there is such a hypersensitivity in the AP makeup that directly addressing their behavior without sugar coating it may lead to triggered reactions.
I think that is a real obstacle to growth and makes me tend to be skeptical for positive outcomes.
if i hit someone and some tells me that this behavior is abusive and unacceptable, and that it is offensive and results in a loss of respect for me and even anger at me and disappointment over my inappropriate behavior, well, i sure better be ready to take my lumps without anyone sugar coating it. i would be ashamed of myself if i allowed myself to develop hurt feelings and a sense of rejection over such an admonishment. In fact, i would consider it further humiliation for myself to try to minimize it or continue acting out.
What i experienced from my AP partners, and AP individuals i have encountered, is that many, maybe not all, but many have responded to a frank assessment of their emotionally abusive and controlling, manipulative behavior, with insecure acting out that includes denial, rationalization, blameshifting, emotional displays, defensiveness, anger, and verbal attacks. In other words, worsening or compounded abuse.
I suspect that this is due to the way interpersonal rejection triggers and anxiously attached person, as they tend to have low self esteem and are hypersensitive to criticism. I have read several sources that say that while dismissive behavior can exhibit as grandiose narcissism to varying degrees, anxious preoccupied attachment exhibits as covert narcissism.
I myself decline to interact with such behavior other than superficially and as briefly as possible, as i am unable to maintain respect for a person with no regard for personal boundaries. My best option has been to eliminate the dynamic from my life, and with my own inner work i have been able to break my toxic pattern of engaging with anxious partners. it's been a devastating experience for me and i am thankful to have been able to heal from it.
Of course, abuse can be categorized according to legality, level of intensity, covert, overt, and whether if is psychological, emotional, spiritual, financial, or physical.
but is any abuse to be tolerated? i think that society has become desensitized to emotional and psychological abuse as perpetrated by anxiously preoccupied partners. I have experienced simple monitoring and suspicion and the effects of it on me were noticeable- especially after i removed myself from it and experienced freedom from it. I was able to look back at what an impact it had on many aspects of my life- what relationships i cultivated, and how; how i neglected my valid emotional and social needs to appease a partner; my sleep hygiene as arguments over my interactions with others carried into the night; my energy levels lowering from such impingement; my anger and frustration levels at the negative character evaluations imposed on me by a jealous and angry partner... the list is long. from the simple "benign" insecure behavior of monitoring my interactions. There is no level of jealous control that is okay!
i would not put up with that for a single day, a single incident, from a partner now, because i don't deserve it, it's demeaning and inappropriate between adult volunteers in a relationship, and it is unacceptable.
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Post by Goldilocks on May 1, 2018 5:47:31 GMT
what i see is that there is such a hypersensitivity in the AP makeup that directly addressing their behavior without sugar coating it may lead to triggered reactions. I think that is a real obstacle to growth and makes me tend to be skeptical for positive outcomes. if i hit someone and some tells me that this behavior is abusive and unacceptable, and that it is offensive and results in a loss of respect for me and even anger at me and disappointment over my inappropriate behavior, well, i sure better be ready to take my lumps without anyone sugar coating it. i would be ashamed of myself if i allowed myself to develop hurt feelings and a sense of rejection over such an admonishment. In fact, i would consider it further humiliation for myself to try to minimize it or continue acting out. What i experienced from my AP partners, and AP individuals i have encountered, is that many, maybe not all, but many have responded to a frank assessment of their emotionally abusive and controlling, manipulative behavior, with insecure acting out that includes denial, rationalization, blameshifting, emotional displays, defensiveness, anger, and verbal attacks. In other words, worsening or compounded abuse. I suspect that this is due to the way interpersonal rejection triggers and anxiously attached person, as they tend to have low self esteem and are hypersensitive to criticism. I have read several sources that say that while dismissive behavior can exhibit as grandiose narcissism to varying degrees, anxious preoccupied attachment exhibits as covert narcissism. It would be interesting if more research was done on self esteem issues and inability to deal with rejection as risk factors for becoming a perpetrator. I myself decline to interact with such behavior other than superficially and as briefly as possible, as i am unable to maintain respect for a person with no regard for personal boundaries. My best option has been to eliminate the dynamic from my life, and with my own inner work i have been able to break my toxic pattern of engaging with anxious partners. it's been a devastating experience for me and i am thankful to have been able to heal from it. Of course, abuse can be categorized according to legality, level of intensity, covert, overt, and whether if is psychological, emotional, spiritual, financial, or physical. but is any abuse to be tolerated? i think that society has become desensitized to emotional and psychological abuse as perpetrated by anxiously preoccupied partners. I have experienced simple monitoring and suspicion and the effects of it on me were noticeable- especially after i removed myself from it and experienced freedom from it. I was able to look back at what an impact it had on many aspects of my life- what relationships i cultivated, and how; how i neglected my valid emotional and social needs to appease a partner; my sleep hygiene as arguments over my interactions with others carried into the night; my energy levels lowering from such impingement; my anger and frustration levels at the negative character evaluations imposed on me by a jealous and angry partner... the list is long. from the simple "benign" insecure behavior of monitoring my interactions. There is no level of jealous control that is okay! i would not put up with that for a single day, a single incident, from a partner now, because i don't deserve it, it's demeaning and inappropriate between adult volunteers in a relationship, and it is unacceptable. I'm glad you have been able to escape and heal from this experience. Not being willing to put up with abuse and controlling behaviour is a sign of self respect. If there was a one off, or very infrequent incidents of emotional abuse, and the perpetrator actually takes it to heart that he or she has been abusive and seeks help to improve their behaviour, there may be hope to transform the relationship to a healthier one. Most of the time, emotional and psychological abuse are happening daily or several times a week. And at that point there is no hope for the relationship. Especially if the abuser is responding abusively to the victim's pain and need to detach to find safety. Also, as a society, we should be okay with somoene ending a relationship when faced with even one off mild emotional abuse. It's a red flag and a lot of abusive relationships may be prevented by the victim leaving before further violence takes place. I had been on a few dates with a guy who had gone through my wallet when I was in the bathroom, to look up more personal information about me. Then I heard his best friend had been physically abusing his girlfriend. I stopped dating this guy. A year or two later, the boyfriend of a friend of mine came up to me telling me he still wanted to be with him and if I wanted a boyfriend who would do whatever I wanted, I should be with him. I found that to be a pretty disturbing suggestion, but people romanticize risky relations. |
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Post by Goldilocks on May 1, 2018 16:07:40 GMT
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Post by juniper on May 1, 2018 18:38:50 GMT
this list describes behavior that i have not seen addressed to any great extent in many of the online resources for anxiously attached, in terms of blogs written for them or forums they participate in. The majority of behaviors being addressed by anxious preoccupied seeking support are the distancing behaviors of the person they are attached to. But that person is usually long gone. |
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Post by Goldilocks on May 1, 2018 19:03:41 GMT
Love Compass is a useful site. There are a lot of helpful tips.
It is unrealistic to expect people, wether secure of dismissive, to change their behaviour and needs in order to please an unwanted admirer. I don't know why people believe this to be a possibly fruitful endeavor, worthy of investing significant amounts of energy into.
The equivalent would be to try to figure out how to transform those corporations who have rejected your application letter.
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